Menachos Daf 7 מנחוס דַף 7

בן בתירא taught that an improperly performed kemitzah can be returned to the original כלי, provided it was not sanctified in the second כלי. The Gemara asks that returning it the first כלי should likewise sanctify and disqualify it permanently!? Rebbe Yochanan answers: זאת אומרת כלי שרת אין מקדשין אלא מדעת – this teaches that a כלי שרת only sanctifies with intent to sanctify what is placed inside, and this the kometz was returned without intent to be מקדש it. Rav Amram answers that it was returned above the airspace of the כלי שרת. This could not have been a ביסא גדושה – heaped vessel, but טפופה – rounded, to enable the kemitzah to be taken from the כלי’s interior. Since returning the kometz to the hole left by the kemitzah act would be מקדש it, the Gemara explains that he places the kometz at the side of the כלי, and shakes it, ונפל ממילא – and it falls inside on its own, דנעשה כמי שהחזירו הקוף – and is considered as if a monkey returned [the kometz], which is not מקדש it (for even if intent is not required, a human act is required).

Rav Nachman asked Avimi how to perform kemitzah, and how to be מקדש the kometz, and Avimi answered each time “with this כלי” which was on the ground (if it would be a כלי שרת). When asked if one could perform kemitzah, or be מקדש the kometz, with a כלי on the ground, Avimi replied: דמגבה ליה כהן – “I meant where a Kohen lifted it.”

However, Rav Sheishess and Rava both derived that kemitzah can be performed from a כלי on the ground, from the fact that only four Kohanim are necessary to remove the לחם הפנים from the שלחן: two remove the two loaves, and two remove the two בזיכין – spoons of לבונה, which are burned on the מזבח, and their removal parallels kemitzah of a normal minchah. Still, additional Kohanim are not required to lift the שלחן during their removal, proving that kemitzah can be taken from a כלי on the ground. Rava additionally proved that one may be מקדש a minchah in a כלי on the ground, from the fact that four Kohanim place the new לחם הפנים on the שלחן (two for the loaves, and two for the בזיכין), and no Kohanim need to lift the שלחן. However, Rava said that the kometz cannot be placed into a כלי on the ground, deriving it from the parallel of קבלת הדם of a korban, which must be in a lifted כלי.

The Gemara objects that Rava does not derive laws of placing the kometz from קבלת הדם: regarding קומץ שחלקו בשני כלים – a kometz which was divided into two vessels for sanctification, Rav Nachman ruled it is not קדוש, and Rava ruled it is, although דם (of a חטאת הפנימית) which was received in two כלים (less than the necessary שיעור הזאה in each כלי) is not valid!? The Gemara answers that Rava retracted this second ruling and agreed with Rav Nachman.

The source disqualifying דם received in two כלים is presented: a Baraisa teaches that if one was מקדש less than the shiur of water for מי חטאת in one כלי, and again in another כלי, the water is invalid for מי חטאת, even after being combined. They asked if the same applies to דם חטאת. Is the law of מי חטאת a הלכה (למשה מסיני), and cannot be applied elsewhere? Or is its reason because "וטבל בַּמים" – and he shall dip it in the water implies that the same water used for dipping is the amount needed for קידוש? If so, the similar phrase regarding korban chatas, וטבל...בַּדם – and he shall dip…in the blood, would require a full שיעור הזאה during קבלה. Rebbe Elazar said the law applies to דם חטאת, and Rava quoted a Baraisa saying the same.