Menachos Daf 87 מנחוס דַף 87

The next Mishnah discusses from where wine was brought for נסכים. We do not bring "הליסטיון" (wine from grapes hung out in the sun), because it was very weak and sweet, but if one did, it is valid. Rebbe says: אין מביאין ישן – we do not bring old wine (from the previous year), but the Chochomim validate it. We may not use sweet wine, nor smoked or cooked wine, and these are פסול even after the fact. The Gemara asks that this latter ruling contradicts the earlier ruling that הליסטיון (another sweet wine) is valid בדיעבד!? Ravina answers: כרוך ותני – combine the two cases and teach them together as פסול even בדיעבד. Rav Ashi differentiates between the two: חוליא דשימשא לא מאיס – sweetness caused by the sun is not repulsive, so הליסטיון is valid בדיעבד, but חוליא דפירא מאיס – sweetness caused by the fruit itself is repulsive, so sweet wine is פסול even בדיעבד. Although Rebbe does not allow using old wine, a Baraisa proves that Rebbe agrees that it is valid בדיעבד. Rava explains that Rebbe’s reason is the passuk אל תרא יין כי יתאדם – do not look upon wine when it is red, indicating that wine is best when it is reddest, which is within its first year.

The tenth Perek begins: שתי מדות של יבש היו במקדש – there were two sizes of measures for dry goods in the Mikdash, an עשרון and a חצי עשרון. Rebbe Meir says there were two types of עשרון (explained below), and a חצי עשרון. The עשרון was used to measure flour for all menachos, including those requiring multiple עשרונות (e.g., three עשרונות for a פר), by measuring an עשרון multiple times. The חצי עשרון was used to divide the חביתי כהן גדול into the two halves which were brought in the morning and afternoon. Rebbe Meir explains in a Baraisa that the passuk’s phrase "עשרון עשרון לכבש האחד" indicates that there are two עשרון measures, אחד גדוש ואחד מחוק – one which measures an עשרון when heaped, and one which measures an עשרון when leveled. The (smaller) גדוש measure was used for all menachos, and the (larger) מחוק measure was used for the חביתי כהן גדול (since this minchah had to be divided, using a leveled measure avoids spilling some of the flour).

Rami bar Chama asked Rav Chisda: שלחן מהו שיקדש קמצים בגודש שלו – can the שולחן consecrate קמצים of לבונה in its airspace? Do we say מדמקדש לחם – since [the שולחן] sanctifies bread (the לחם הפנים) on its surface, קמצים נמי מקדש – it can also consecrate קמצים of לבונה (despite not being in the בזיכין – spoons), or do we say דחזי ליה מקדש – that which is fit for [the שולחן] (i.e., the לחם הפנים) it can consecrate, but it cannot be mekadesh קמצים of לבונה, which are not fit for it? Rav Chisda replied that it cannot be mekadesh them. Rami bar Chama objected that Rebbe Yochanan taught that the שולחן can be mekadesh up to the total height of the לחם הפנים (according to one opinion, fifteen tefachim, and according to another opinion, twelve tefachim), proving that it is mekadesh other items!? Rav Chisda replied: אינו מקדש ליקרב – it cannot consecrate another item to be offered, אבל מקדש ליפסל – but it consecrate it to the degree that it can become disqualified (if it is touched by a טבול יום, or leaves the עזרה).