Zevachim Daf 85 זבחים דַף 85

The Mishnah on the previous Daf taught that if an animal was brought onto the מזבח alive, it is taken down, but if it was shechted there, the Kohen should do הפשט וניתוח – skinning and dismemberment there and burn it. The Gemara asks that if this refers to disqualified korbanos, there should be no הפשט וניתוח at all, because the Torah excluded פסולים from הפשט וניתוח!? Therefore, the Gemara says it refers to valid korbanos, and is teaching that הפשט וניתוח may be performed on top of the מזבח if the korban was shechted there. According to the Amora who holds there is no הפשט וניתוח on top of the מזבח, the Gemara explains that it can refer to פסולים, but שהיתה לו שעת הכושר ונפסלה – where it had a period of validity after זריקה and then was invalidated. This follows the Tanna that once its זריקה was performed and its meat was fit for the מזבח, then even if it becomes פסול, it is still skinned and the skin is given to Kohanim. The Gemara adds that the קרבים – innards are taken down, and are washed clean, in case a Kohen inadvertently brings them back up. Although this may lead to such an error, it is still preferable, so that קדשי שמים should not lie like a נבילה.

Rebbe Yochanan asked: אימורי קדשים קלים שהעלן לפני זריקת דמן – regarding sacrificial parts of kodashim kalim which were brought up onto the מזבח before the throwing up the blood, ירדו או לא ירדו – do they come down or not? Rebbe Ami asked Rebbe Yochanan why he did not pose this inquiry about מעילה and ask whether bringing these אימורין onto the מזבח subjects them to מעילה. [Me’ilah only applies to kodashim which were fully designated as Hashem’s, and אימורין ordinarily become subject to me’ilah when the korban’s זריקה is performed. Here, when bringing the אימורין onto the מזבח and it sanctifies them to remain there, perhaps they become subject to me’ilah before the זריקה.] Rebbe Yochanan replied that he had no question about me’ilah, דזריקה הוא דקבעה להו במעילה – because only zerikah subjects them to me’ilah. He concluded that they do not go down from the מזבח. Another version of Rebbe Yochanan’s inquiry is presented, with the same conclusion.

The Mishnah taught that although invalid korbanos which were brought up are not taken down, however, if they were taken down, they are not brought back up. עולא says this is only true where the fire has not taken hold of them, אבל משלה בהן האור יעלו – but if the fire had taken hold of them, they are brought up again, even if they were taken down (because they become לחמו של מזבח – the mizbeiach’s “food”). Rav Mari taught Ulla’s ruling regarding the above Mishnah discussing invalid korbanos, but Rav Chanina of Sura taught Ulla’s ruling regarding the next Mishnah, which states that bones, sinews, horns, and hooves which became detached from a korban are not brought up, and a Baraisa adds that even if they were brought up, they are taken down (since such items never belong on the מזבח). To this, Ulla was quoted saying that if the fire took hold of them, then they are taken back up. According to this opinion, Ulla’s ruling certainly holds true for invalid korbanos as well. But according to Rav Mari, Ulla only ruled this way for invalid korbanos, but not for bones, etc. because לאו בני הקטרה נינהו – they are not fit for burning on the מזבח, and being burned by the fire does not impact them.